Green Airlines wants to start with “Chailair” Beech 1900D

Karlsruhe / Baden-Baden Airport (Photo: Robert Spohr).
Karlsruhe / Baden-Baden Airport (Photo: Robert Spohr).

Green Airlines wants to start with “Chailair” Beech 1900D

Karlsruhe / Baden-Baden Airport (Photo: Robert Spohr).
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The German startup Green Airlines announced on Thursday that “Chailair Aviation” (sic!) Will take over the announced flights between Karlsruhe / Baden-Baden and Berlin-Brandenburg. It is noteworthy that the name of the French airline Chalair Aviation was misspelled and that several times.

If this typo only appeared once in the media release, it would be clear that it was a simple typo. However, since "Chailair" is repeatedly written instead of "Chalair" in the subject line and in the heading as well as in the body of the text, the impression arises that one does not know the correct name of the contractual partner.

Air Alsie rejected the project for unspecified reasons. Shortly afterwards, Green Airlines removed all photos and logos that point to the Danish carrier from the homepage. Instead of the announced ATR 72-500, 19-seat Beech 1900D can now be seen in Green Airlines' reservation system. On Thursday afternoon, only one seat was marked as blocked on the first flight.

Karlsruhe / Baden-Baden Airport issued a media release on Thursday on the upcoming 2020/21 winter flight schedule. Green Airlines did not mention FKB at all. There is also not a single reference to the planned offer on the airport's homepage or flight plan. The airport Karlsruhe / Baden-Baden recently announced that the flights are still not registered.

8 Comments

  • Berti, 24. October 2020 @ 18: 49

    "Air Alsie rejected the project for unspecified reasons". Nonsense. Green Airlines ended the cooperation because Air Alsie could not provide a smaller aircraft. The article is one-sided and unresearched public opinion.

    • Jan Gruber, 25. October 2020 @ 08: 13

      Your statement does not agree with Air Alsie's opinion.

      • Bertie, 25. October 2020 @ 15: 06

        That's not true. Air Alsie only confirms that they will not fly the route. There was no statement about the background

        • Jan Gruber, 25. October 2020 @ 18: 46

          For example, do you have access to our employees' telephones and e-mail accounts or how did you come to the conclusion? Air Alsie explained to us very clearly that the cancellation came from Air Alsie and that no contract was signed at any time. The Danish company also said that Green Airlines has been asked to remove all photos, logos and other references to Air Alsie.
          It is very exciting that the portrayals of the airports and Air Alsie differ so greatly from those of Green Airlines. That doesn't happen often in the industry.

  • Scrap metal aviators, 25. October 2020 @ 09: 48

    The airports in Berlin and Baden-Baden Wissen are also very well informed by AT.
    It is also true that Air Alsie does not have a flexible fleet available, the ATR that is now available in the AOC belongs to Lübeck Air and is operated by the Danes, as Lübeck Air does not have its own AOC.
    With Chalair you have a flexible partner with whom the demand, more adaptable device is available.
    The Beech 1900D has the advantage that the seats are arranged in 1-1, so that a blocked neighboring seat is no longer necessary if such a regulation is required.
    An ATR42 with 46 seats would then only have 23 seats available, with more than twice the weight hardly more seats than are allowed in the 1900D.
    Everyone can work out how much they will save per flight. Duties, maintenance and fuel costs, the consumption of the ATR per block hour alone would be more than two and a half times as high, therefore Green Air's right decision to look for a flexible partner with Chalair.

    • Jan Gruber, 25. October 2020 @ 10: 32

      Dear scrap metal aviator,
      stand of course we in contact with the FKB and the BER. In this context, I would like to politely refer you to an article in which explicitly about a very detailed statement from the airport Karlsruhe / Baden-Baden have reported.

      On October 22, 2020, the FKB sent a press release in which the winter flight schedule was presented. Not only do you not say a single word about Green Airlines, you also continue not to mention their planned offer on the homepage or in the FKB flight schedule published there. Furthermore, there are no BER slots in the slot list that could be assigned to Chalair, Air Alsie, etc. For known reasons (Corona), the last mentioned should really be the smallest problem of all.

      Here is the original copy of the PM of the FKB, which we received on October 22, 2020:
      FKB-PM from October 22.10.2020nd, XNUMX

      A few brief words about registering slots:
      Slots can only register and be allocated to carriers with a valid AOC and valid OL. So-called “virtual airlines” or travel agencies / tour operators cannot do this. The operating carrier must ALWAYS do this. Furthermore, contrary to many assumptions, the slots do not “hang” on the AOC, but on the OL (operating license).

      Regarding your assessment of the fleet:
      Air Alsie not only has one ATR72-500, but three. Furthermore, there are numerous smaller machines between six and 14 seats, which are mainly used in business charter. In this respect, Air Alsie - if the Danes wanted it - could definitely have provided flexibility.

      Regarding your assessment of the machines and savings.
      This is a bit too simple, because the unit costs are considerably higher for the Beech 1900D than for the ATR72-500. As a result, a higher yield has to be achieved in order to be able to fly in at least a black zero. Furthermore, the so-called 1 meter distance, or in Germany 1,5 meter distance, cannot be maintained in the Beech either. Should politicians come up with the idea that adjacent seats have to be blocked, the capacity of the Beech would also be halved. However, it is very unlikely that this will happen as there is agreement at EU level that all seats on airplanes and public transport can be occupied.

      The Beech 1900D is extremely difficult to operate economically in terms of unit costs and the necessary yield that must necessarily be achieved per seat. I haven't calculated that now, but taking into account all costs including overhead, a net yield of around 350 to 400 euros would have to be achieved, but with 100 percent load in order to be able to fly economically. This is exactly the reason why these small aircraft have almost completely disappeared from scheduled services and are only used on routes that have a very low volume but an extremely good yield. These are now very few routes.

      What is true, however: Yes, the Beech is cheaper when it comes to landing fees. That's right, but these are real peanuts compared to the handling fee, where it doesn't really matter whether a Beech or an ATR lands.

      Ultimately, the free market will decide whether the project will succeed or not. In the past ALL operators of this route withdrew with heavy losses. For example, Air Berlin could never earn money on FKB-TXL, even though they had a hub in TXL. If Green Airlines, together with Chalair, make it, I'll grant them. Personally, I even think it's cool that hopefully there will soon be a second route within Germany with such a small aircraft. Those who have been doing it for a long time and (let's just ignore Corona for a moment) are successful because it is a high-yield route: FMO-STR, operated by AIS Airlines with Jetstream 31/32.

      Finally, I'll show you an excerpt from the original press release that Green Airlines sent us. Mistakes can always happen, but spelling the name of the operating carrier incorrectly several times is a bit unprofessional:
      Green Airlines PM

      • Bertie, 25. October 2020 @ 15: 16

        The press release is certainly embarrassing. However, it did not come from the airline, as they claim, but from a commissioned PR agency. You would have had to proofread it before sending it, but I still find what you make of it dubious. The mood of your portal against certain airlines is obvious.

        • Jan Gruber, 25. October 2020 @ 18: 41

          Which airlines do you think Aviation.Direct is campaigning against?
          Note: Green Airlines is not an airline.

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8 Comments

  • Berti, 24. October 2020 @ 18: 49

    "Air Alsie rejected the project for unspecified reasons". Nonsense. Green Airlines ended the cooperation because Air Alsie could not provide a smaller aircraft. The article is one-sided and unresearched public opinion.

    • Jan Gruber, 25. October 2020 @ 08: 13

      Your statement does not agree with Air Alsie's opinion.

      • Bertie, 25. October 2020 @ 15: 06

        That's not true. Air Alsie only confirms that they will not fly the route. There was no statement about the background

        • Jan Gruber, 25. October 2020 @ 18: 46

          For example, do you have access to our employees' telephones and e-mail accounts or how did you come to the conclusion? Air Alsie explained to us very clearly that the cancellation came from Air Alsie and that no contract was signed at any time. The Danish company also said that Green Airlines has been asked to remove all photos, logos and other references to Air Alsie.
          It is very exciting that the portrayals of the airports and Air Alsie differ so greatly from those of Green Airlines. That doesn't happen often in the industry.

  • Scrap metal aviators, 25. October 2020 @ 09: 48

    The airports in Berlin and Baden-Baden Wissen are also very well informed by AT.
    It is also true that Air Alsie does not have a flexible fleet available, the ATR that is now available in the AOC belongs to Lübeck Air and is operated by the Danes, as Lübeck Air does not have its own AOC.
    With Chalair you have a flexible partner with whom the demand, more adaptable device is available.
    The Beech 1900D has the advantage that the seats are arranged in 1-1, so that a blocked neighboring seat is no longer necessary if such a regulation is required.
    An ATR42 with 46 seats would then only have 23 seats available, with more than twice the weight hardly more seats than are allowed in the 1900D.
    Everyone can work out how much they will save per flight. Duties, maintenance and fuel costs, the consumption of the ATR per block hour alone would be more than two and a half times as high, therefore Green Air's right decision to look for a flexible partner with Chalair.

    • Jan Gruber, 25. October 2020 @ 10: 32

      Dear scrap metal aviator,
      stand of course we in contact with the FKB and the BER. In this context, I would like to politely refer you to an article in which explicitly about a very detailed statement from the airport Karlsruhe / Baden-Baden have reported.

      On October 22, 2020, the FKB sent a press release in which the winter flight schedule was presented. Not only do you not say a single word about Green Airlines, you also continue not to mention their planned offer on the homepage or in the FKB flight schedule published there. Furthermore, there are no BER slots in the slot list that could be assigned to Chalair, Air Alsie, etc. For known reasons (Corona), the last mentioned should really be the smallest problem of all.

      Here is the original copy of the PM of the FKB, which we received on October 22, 2020:
      FKB-PM from October 22.10.2020nd, XNUMX

      A few brief words about registering slots:
      Slots can only register and be allocated to carriers with a valid AOC and valid OL. So-called “virtual airlines” or travel agencies / tour operators cannot do this. The operating carrier must ALWAYS do this. Furthermore, contrary to many assumptions, the slots do not “hang” on the AOC, but on the OL (operating license).

      Regarding your assessment of the fleet:
      Air Alsie not only has one ATR72-500, but three. Furthermore, there are numerous smaller machines between six and 14 seats, which are mainly used in business charter. In this respect, Air Alsie - if the Danes wanted it - could definitely have provided flexibility.

      Regarding your assessment of the machines and savings.
      This is a bit too simple, because the unit costs are considerably higher for the Beech 1900D than for the ATR72-500. As a result, a higher yield has to be achieved in order to be able to fly in at least a black zero. Furthermore, the so-called 1 meter distance, or in Germany 1,5 meter distance, cannot be maintained in the Beech either. Should politicians come up with the idea that adjacent seats have to be blocked, the capacity of the Beech would also be halved. However, it is very unlikely that this will happen as there is agreement at EU level that all seats on airplanes and public transport can be occupied.

      The Beech 1900D is extremely difficult to operate economically in terms of unit costs and the necessary yield that must necessarily be achieved per seat. I haven't calculated that now, but taking into account all costs including overhead, a net yield of around 350 to 400 euros would have to be achieved, but with 100 percent load in order to be able to fly economically. This is exactly the reason why these small aircraft have almost completely disappeared from scheduled services and are only used on routes that have a very low volume but an extremely good yield. These are now very few routes.

      What is true, however: Yes, the Beech is cheaper when it comes to landing fees. That's right, but these are real peanuts compared to the handling fee, where it doesn't really matter whether a Beech or an ATR lands.

      Ultimately, the free market will decide whether the project will succeed or not. In the past ALL operators of this route withdrew with heavy losses. For example, Air Berlin could never earn money on FKB-TXL, even though they had a hub in TXL. If Green Airlines, together with Chalair, make it, I'll grant them. Personally, I even think it's cool that hopefully there will soon be a second route within Germany with such a small aircraft. Those who have been doing it for a long time and (let's just ignore Corona for a moment) are successful because it is a high-yield route: FMO-STR, operated by AIS Airlines with Jetstream 31/32.

      Finally, I'll show you an excerpt from the original press release that Green Airlines sent us. Mistakes can always happen, but spelling the name of the operating carrier incorrectly several times is a bit unprofessional:
      Green Airlines PM

      • Bertie, 25. October 2020 @ 15: 16

        The press release is certainly embarrassing. However, it did not come from the airline, as they claim, but from a commissioned PR agency. You would have had to proofread it before sending it, but I still find what you make of it dubious. The mood of your portal against certain airlines is obvious.

        • Jan Gruber, 25. October 2020 @ 18: 41

          Which airlines do you think Aviation.Direct is campaigning against?
          Note: Green Airlines is not an airline.

Leave a Comment

Your e-mail address will not be published. Required fields are marked with * marked

This website uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn more about how your comment data is processed.

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